Smoking in pool rooms

[Ivan Lee]

This is an interesting topic that I have heard a lot about from industry people. Many room owners see the availability of smoking as a life-line to keep people coming in and staying in business.
Now some states have public smoking bans and this is causing problems for rooms. But I have to think that the people that are willing to re-invent themselves (or their rooms) will be reaching out to the 80% of the population that does not smoke even if they are forced to possibly forsake the 20% of the population that does smoke. (and we all know that the diehard pool player will come to play even if he has to take smoke breaks in his car).

Feel free to add comments on the above, but my question is this: If you could not find a pool hall that allowed smoking (or one close enough to you) would you not go out to shoot pool or would you try to find a friend with a table at home that allows smoking in the house? What are other options that you would consider (smokers and non-smokers)?

[Brad]

Great topic Ivan. A friend of mine has been specifically & dramatically affected by the smoking ban in Appleton, WI. His place, Shark's Club Billiards, is on the verge of closing after 13 years in operation. His business has been nearly cut in half since the ban took affect. His circumstances may be different from some others because his place lies in the basement of a larger complex. Players now have to walk up a sizable flight of stairs to take their smoke breaks. On a pay per hour basis, this inhibits long sessions for players that smoke and their opponents. If a typical smoker takes a smoke break every 40 minutes, he's eating up his table time while he/she is away. A non-smoking opponent will likely not have the patience for the repeated breaks.

The result seems to be that many players are going elsewhere, or finding something else to do. Many have made the trip 20 minutes south to Oshkosh, where there is no ban. The owner of Shark's has told me that his business was about cut in half. I see this myself as I used to witness all 24 tables filled on a Tuesday night with a waiting list. Now I can go there on a Saturday night and see them 40% vacant. It is very sad. Maybe if it were located on the street level it would be a little different. It has been affecting bars in general in Appleton, though. Many people will travel to the town's on the outskirts because that's where all the action is. Even the the 20% minority that smokes is the one's affected, it does have an impact on the whole. At my home pool hall the players that smoke probably represent closer to 40%. If 50% of them play less or elsewhere, then that cuts deeply in the business. When non-smoking pool players walk into a giant caverness hall with no players, they move on as well. So there is a snowball effect.

That is what occurred in my neck of the woods, anyway. Even though I no longer smoke, I am still a strong believer in freedom of choice. I, as a non-smoker, should be able to decide on my own whether or not to subject myself to a smokey room. And the room owner should be able to decide to be smokefree or to have a non-smoking section. Shark's owner happens to be a lifelong non-smoker too.

[Ivan Lee]

Your friend's case is interesting because people can make the journey to an area that allows smoking, so he gets a double-whammy. However, there are places (like Illinois) where it has been banned outright and state-wide.

Are there rooms out there that have been forced into non-smoking and thay have managed the transition successfully? Smoking bans have been in effect in places like California for years, yet that market is still strong.

Some people in the industry think that it is simply a contest for the discretionary dollar and entertainment choices are varied and plentiful, so pool takes a back seat. I have a hard time with that point of view. If you are selling tables, that makes more sense and the scare about digital television may be directing people to buy new televisions, but pool remains a big part of popular culture.

For example, how often do you see pool being played on television commercials? It would be nice to say that the industry has been working on product placement and we have been getting pool into these areas, but it is happening organically. Pool is cool for advertising. You see it regularly. How do we get more people into the pool? (pun intended)

[Brad]

My friend has been holding out hope that a statewide ban would occur to help level the playing field. That has yet to occur and may be too late for him.

[dliebes]

My Pool Hall will be in NC which should be one of the last states to ban smoking. However, we know it is an issue for many players that don't smoke, so we are building a non-smoking room with four tables. We are hoping to attract a lot of non-smokers and possibly start the only non-smoking league in the region. When we open up and get some stats on the usage in that room compared to the rest of the hall, I'll let everyone know.

[Brad]

The non-smoking section is a wise choice. I'm sure that will prove quite popular.

[John Morgan]

This is a very difficult issue for room owners I know. Their ability to generate revenue comes from the guys that come to their pool rooms today, many of whom are smokers and drinkers. Future customers that are non-smokers - teens, young adults, or older guys like me that don't smoke - don't give room owners a warm and fuzzy feeling. I go to pool rooms that open before 8am or go early and leave in the mid afternoon. During this time, the pool room is pretty empty and the bars and dart boards are full of players. The room owners do their best to eliminate the smell, and I really apprecite that. If I join a league I have to put up with the smoke and take a shower when I get home. The concern for me getting cancer is a big concern, but you have to live with what you have until the laws of the state catch up with the rest of the world. I spent 5 years supporting business in Asia and many of those countries don't allow smoking on the premises. Airlines don't allow smoking for the 18 hours to get from New York to Singapore. Not much one can do until the law catches on that people die from smoke inhilation.

[Ivan Lee]

Interesting points John.
I know a room owner in the Portland Oregon area that actually divided his room into two rooms... one smoking and the other non-smoking. It worked for a while and it is an interesting tribute to giving patrons a choice, but the city council eventually decided that this was still unacceptable.

From what I understand, he still has a smoking section, but he had to begin to offer food and beverage to keep it. It seems that the writing is on the wall though and he will probably have to go completely smoke-free. He has been engaged with this situation for about five years now and it is a good case-study on the topic.

Some questions arise from the discussion thus far: Can the customer who is a non-smoking player who actually enjoys the smoke-free room be identified? Can we market to him once we identify him? How different is he from the smoker and what can be done to engage this person?

[Mike Feiman]

Whether we want to admit it or not, the smoking pool hall is a relic of the past. There are statewide smoking bans in well over half the states and if I had to make a prediction, I'd say that you'll see that number grow to near 100% within the next 5-10 years.

I personally don't feel strongly about it either way, but the freedom of choice argument is a tough one to make. Smokers are essentially imposing their will on non-smokers by forcing them to breathe smoke-filled air (although the same could be said about non-smokers imposing their will on smokers).

Ultimately, pool hall owners are going to have to find additional ways to drive business if they are losing business to the smoking ban. A big part of this is bringing new people to the game. While the ban might hurt initially, in the long run it could have the effect of changing the profile of the patron of pool halls and breathing new life into the industry.

[dliebes]

The argument is not about smokers vs non-smokers rights, it's about the rights of a business owner to run their business. As long as the business owner let the patrons know if smoking is allowed or not, the customers can make their own informed decision if they want to go or not. No one is telling a non-smoker that they have to breathe in smoke.

[John Morgan]

Here in San Antonio you either tolerate the smoking or you don't play, so I go. Room owners allow smoking because there is no experience with a smoking ban and since the city allows it, then if one fails to offer smoking, then there is fear they'll lose business to those who do allow smoking.

I don't smoke, never did. I watched smoking kill my father (age 58 and healthy otherwise) and ultimately thru his smoking my mother died as well. My brother was a smoker and died at age 47.

There's a lot of things about smoking that bother me, but most of all, it kills people. Some not all. I think that we all have certain characteristics in our genetic makeup that allow us to tolerate smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. Smoking gives people a license to liter, smells up the area they're in, and gives others like people with asthma or who have serious sinus issues (which I have) a problem. I don't think it's right, but I tolerate it because I have to if I want to play pool in my city.

There are alternatives to the issue, but no one is willing to step up to the plate to fix the problem.

[dliebes]

You're right in that smoke bothers a lot of people in many ways. That's why we will have a non-smoking room in our pool hall and we will have a least 6 smoke-eaters in the smoking areas.

That said, it should still be the business owner's choice of how they run their business and the customer's choice of where they go or don't go to spend their money. In my opinion, it should not be the govenment's.

Personally, I smoked for 31 years but quit 5 years ago.

[Oyster]

NO one is also telling innocent people hit by stray bullets that they shouldn't have been there either. And there is a Reason smoking is not allowed on airplanes. Imagine wanting to travel and your choice was flying. Your choice... breathing smoke for hours or drive? Well.... someone SHOULD be telling the smokers that they don't have to go out if they have to smoke. Stay home and do it and when you are finished with it then Rack-Em! No one is forcing smokers to go out and be miserable without a cigarette. Non-Smokers don't mind smokers as long as they don't exhale!